our defence is not brilliant now teams target our left ,with black there we would leak more points,watto and varks side of the field is pretty tight.

IMO, one of the problems with Blackie was the coaching (or lack of it) he got from Faz. Dont think he ever gave him the confidence to go out on the pitch & just take control.



For instance, remember when he put him on the bench over at Oldham? He should have been starting & ripping defences to pieces.



As for his defence, im sure you dont play half backs for their defensive effort. Sure they need to be able to tackle, but since Dunners, dont think we've had anyone who is great in the dept.



Would have been good to have seen Black back, but his time has gone, we have 2 good half backs here now & have the confidence put in them by the coaching team.

Fair enough but its not about whether we need him back or not that bothers me, its when people disparage his contribution and get all sniffy about him. For us, he was a great player and one of the few reasons for turning up in 2005. The kind of player who gets the blood running a bit quicker, and we've not had many recently. People criticise him on the basis that he only won [isome[/i games single handedly and was therefore "inconsistent" because he didn't win [ievery [/i game single-handedly

I didnt resurrect this thread with the idea that we need Ben back, just that it would be nice to see him play at the top level to see how he does. I watch all ex Fax players with interest and it was also good to see Rikki get some praise this weekend for the win over Cats. Had we gone up in 2005, God knows what would have happened to us with the coach we had so lets put that one to bed immediately.



Time to move on, but lets just keep our eyes open for ex Fax players and be proud of what they acheive eh.

Oh dear Andy my son, Claire appears to have beaten you hands down on this one .... and your weak and desperate attempt to bring my views on Dean Lawford was shot down in flames, you can't compare the present situation of Lawford (on the brink of retirement) and Black (still a young lad). And, again like Claire has mentioned, Lawford, whether you love him or hate him, has "been there and done it" at the top level. A more complete and consistent player than Black has or ever will be.



And on the subject of Black "single handedly" winning us games, he also "single handedly" lost us games as well. I'll always remember that home match against Rochdale when we lost in the last minute. I was at the end of my tether with Black's errattic and lazy play as it was (and yes he DID get gradually worse under Faz's coaching). But his performance in that particular match was the worse I've ever seen by a Fax half back ... he was passing the ball either into touch or on the ground, his tackling was appalling, and his missed one on one attempts were a disgrace. Folk around me in the South Stand were commenting "Oh aye, I see Black spent last night in Jumping Jaks again". But Faz never took him off! We would have beaten Rochdale that day, very comfortably, if Black hadn't "gotten in the way".



And as for your view that all half backs are protected when it comes to defending. Balderdash!! Did you see little Robbie Burrows thud the likes of big John Wilkie into the ground last Friday? Decent halfbacks don't need "protecting" when it comes to defence!! Surely? I rest my case!



But I'm sure we'll argue this one till the cows come home, cos I ain't changing my views and Andy ... you won't change yours





Maybe Black might make a return then we can analyse his contribution in a more maticulous manner, but until then I refuse to be drawn into this Bloody Black argument again! Honest!

Hope you haven't forgot your promise to run round the Shay naked if Blacky plays state of origin.

Andy, couldnt agree with you more. Everyone has differing opinions on him, but what you cant take away was his "bums on seats" factor

You are absolutely right, but also,



what about his "fights in town" or disappear up "his own ar5e" factor?

Witness Holroyd's half back performance today. Far far better than anything Black had to offer. A controlled performance ,.... good kicking game ... sound distribution ... and solid defence. Had Black been playing we would probably still had won ... but he score would have been 54 - 44 or summat like that. And as for the comment Black "putting bums on seats" .....



.... the crowds were crap in the season he played so how the hell you work that one out??

Tone, you're relentless in your irrational anti-Black ramblings. Is it personal? Did he slip your missus one?

The bums on seats factor you relate to are not just down to 1 player but more down to a winning team. Notice yesterday there was 1700+ there with maybe 30-40 rochdale fans. That is much better than we have been getting so slowly but surley we might be starting to increase our gates and am guessing that is down to us winning not any 1 player!

interesting